I'm told that some of you, especially those at work, do not have speakers so you may not have been able to listen to the Dan Stamper interview on Detroit radio. Moreover, in light of what is taking place in Lansing, appears to be happening in Ottawa and given a new Minister of Transportation in Ontario, I thought it would be worthwhile to transcribe the interview and then comment on it.
There may be an opportunity now to get an acceptable resolution on all of the border issues. This is the most hopeful time period that we have had, to be quite blunt about it, since the time when Eddie Francis was first elected as Mayor and had everyone eating out of his hand. Then he blew it all.
Effectively, the road to the border corridor has been determined and now we just stalling over how many tunnels we will get and how long they will be. Will we get a "shunnel" as DRIC wants or a Schwunnel as Eddie wants? In other words, we are fighting over a "C" and a "W." Perhaps the parties could retain Garth Brooks, the famous country singer, as a mediator since he knows a lot about C&W!
Given the situation in Michigan and Ontario with their financial problems, the attitude of the Michigan Legislature as expressed in their budget documents and the promise of the Governor to Senator Cropsey, with a new Ontario Minister that hopefully can look at the border matter with a fresh point of view and a seeming change in Canada's attitude, it may be that we can finally have talks between the Governments and the Bridge Company to resolve the mess.
Frank Beckmann Show 760 WJR Detroit Oct. 30, 2007
Frank Beckmann: Nice to talk with you again
Dan Stamper: Good morning Frank. How are you?.
Beckmann: I am very well. Where is this headed right now? What is your feeling what the Legislature will do with the appropriation?
Stamper: I don't know. I know there is a lot of discussion going on. There is a feeling with both the House and the Senate that this is a boondoggle for the state to be even involved in. And I know that there’s been a lot of closed-door discussions over it whether to continue it or not continue it. [There is no doubt that there is a major concern over spending given that the Legislature wants to have hearings almost immediately on the expenditure of funds and has said that MDOT cannot spend any money other than on the study without their prior approval]
Beckmann: Why would the state be interested in trying to spend $2 billion to build another bridge to compete with yours or replace yours?
Stamper: Well based on discussions we’ve had with the Governor’s office and with the Director of MDOT, both are saying that our project is the best project for Michigan but for Canada saying that they won’t allow us to build another bridge and let us land it in Windsor. And the facts are that Canada has not been quoted as saying that anywhere. In fact, we were meeting last week with Transport Canada in Ottawa and they said everything but that. They are not against our project. They like the study of the DRIC but if our environmental assessments are correct, they are not going to stop us from building our twin bridge. So I am kind of lost as to why the State of Michigan Governor and the MDOT Director would continue to blame Canada for not doing what's good for Michigan. [Blame Canada? Have we been living through a re-run of South Park or is there something more?
Has there been a misunderstanding between Canada and Michigan that has resulted in a controversy? Or has there been deliberate disinformation spread designed to prevent a resolution? If so, who spread it and why? Will we find out now who the "LEAKOR" is? If there has been disinformation spread how much has it cost taxpayers in both countries and the Bridge Co. and how can that money be returned to the taxpayers and to the Company?
It is fascinating to me that there was a meeting in Ottawa. It would be interesting to know who attended at that meeting to see how serious a meeting it was. Was it just the bureaucrats or was Transport Minister Cannon also in attendance? If he was there, I think that this was the first time that he is met anyone from the Bridge Company face-to-face.
The interesting point is the attitude of the Canadian Government with respect to the EA. There certainly seems to be a softening of Stamper's attitude towards Transport Canada so we would have to say that there were some kind of breakthrough that was made or some kind of understanding that was reached. Or maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part. There is a harshness in tone with respect to the Michigan executive that is repeated throughout the interview.
How can one explain the change in attitude of Transport Canada? It is very simple. They understood what the Senate of Canada said in their Observation language after the Bill C-3 hearings: Given the situation in Michigan and Ontario with their financial problems, the attitude of the Michigan Legislature as expressed in their budget documents and the promise of the Governor to Senator Cropsey, with a new Ontario Minister that hopefully can look at the border matter with a fresh point of view and a seeming change in Canada's attitude, it may be that we can finally have talks between the Governments and the Bridge Company to resolve the mess.
Frank Beckmann Show 760 WJR Detroit Oct. 30, 2007
Frank Beckmann: Nice to talk with you again
Dan Stamper: Good morning Frank. How are you?.
Beckmann: I am very well. Where is this headed right now? What is your feeling what the Legislature will do with the appropriation?
Stamper: I don't know. I know there is a lot of discussion going on. There is a feeling with both the House and the Senate that this is a boondoggle for the state to be even involved in. And I know that there’s been a lot of closed-door discussions over it whether to continue it or not continue it. [There is no doubt that there is a major concern over spending given that the Legislature wants to have hearings almost immediately on the expenditure of funds and has said that MDOT cannot spend any money other than on the study without their prior approval]
Beckmann: Why would the state be interested in trying to spend $2 billion to build another bridge to compete with yours or replace yours?
Stamper: Well based on discussions we’ve had with the Governor’s office and with the Director of MDOT, both are saying that our project is the best project for Michigan but for Canada saying that they won’t allow us to build another bridge and let us land it in Windsor. And the facts are that Canada has not been quoted as saying that anywhere. In fact, we were meeting last week with Transport Canada in Ottawa and they said everything but that. They are not against our project. They like the study of the DRIC but if our environmental assessments are correct, they are not going to stop us from building our twin bridge. So I am kind of lost as to why the State of Michigan Governor and the MDOT Director would continue to blame Canada for not doing what's good for Michigan. [Blame Canada? Have we been living through a re-run of South Park or is there something more?
Has there been a misunderstanding between Canada and Michigan that has resulted in a controversy? Or has there been deliberate disinformation spread designed to prevent a resolution? If so, who spread it and why? Will we find out now who the "LEAKOR" is? If there has been disinformation spread how much has it cost taxpayers in both countries and the Bridge Co. and how can that money be returned to the taxpayers and to the Company?
It is fascinating to me that there was a meeting in Ottawa. It would be interesting to know who attended at that meeting to see how serious a meeting it was. Was it just the bureaucrats or was Transport Minister Cannon also in attendance? If he was there, I think that this was the first time that he is met anyone from the Bridge Company face-to-face.
The interesting point is the attitude of the Canadian Government with respect to the EA. There certainly seems to be a softening of Stamper's attitude towards Transport Canada so we would have to say that there were some kind of breakthrough that was made or some kind of understanding that was reached. Or maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part. There is a harshness in tone with respect to the Michigan executive that is repeated throughout the interview.
- "However, the Minister of Transport should be particularly sensitive to any situation where the federal government is in a situation where there is an appearance of conflict, especially when the interests of a private enterprise are at stake."
Do you really think that the Minister and his staff want to appear in front of the Senators and tell them that they ignored what they had to say? I am sure that the MDOT officials feel the same way. Accordingly, if anyone believes that the Senate Resolution in Michigan is merely "words on paper," then that person is sadly mistaken.]
Beckmann: Well if Canada is fine with it as you say that should end the discussion right there? Lets move ahead with private investment in this
Stamper: Absolutely and we all felt that there is more to this than we know and the State of Michigan has continually blamed Canada for not doing the right thing for Michigan and I just think that it is way past time to do what is right for Michigan and I don't think Canada, and I am pretty sure they will confirm that, are not against what we are trying to do. [Again a hint of reconciliation. The intriguing part which may or may never be revealed what is it that is "more to this than we know."]
Beckmann: Do you think that MDOT wants to replace you as the Ambassador bridge link or join you in that enterprise and compete with you?
Stamper: Well, as you are aware and everyone is aware, MDOT owns and operates the Blue Water Bridge and they tried to take most of our business a few years ago when they twinned the Blue Water Bridge. They built freeway connections to it and now they are talking about spending another $450 million to fix the plaza that was done wrong by MDOT . That they are a direct competitor and I do believe that plays a role on what’s been going on. [It is interesting to me about the relationship with MDOT and the Bridge Company as both regulators and competitors. It is very similar to the relationship with the Government of Canada and with the City of Windsor in relation to the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel. The question that may well have to be decided one day if there cannot be resolution is how much of what the Governments have done is regulation and how much is anticompetitive behavior]
Beckmann: Well as you said, $450 million to fix a plaza that wasn't done right in the first place which once again points out that private enterprise is always going to do a better job on these projects than government is, isn't it?
Stamper: Well it's proven that way. We’ve got an 80-year history at the Ambassador Bridge. We are the number one border crossing both in volume of commercial traffic and in efficiency. It has been noted by Federal Highway in a number of their reports that we are always consistently better operated than any of the government-owned bridges. Our projects also needs no homes, no businesses and the DRIC bridge would take somewhere between 150 and 300 homes that have to be condemned and about 60 businesses that would have to be condemned. So it raises in the question, where is this all coming from and we all know the Governor is Canadian but we sure didn't think it would fall into this kind of decision making. [I do not follow the Blue Water Bridge matter that closely but it is surprising to me that the issue of spending over $400 million to fix up the MDOT mess hasn't been discussed more often. Imagine giving the people who made the mess in the first place so much more money to fix it. And these are the people that we are relying upon to fix up Windsor/Detroit. Now that makes me scared.
The part that has always boggled my mind on both sides of the river is why no one will accept the Enhancement Project that causes no disruption in Sandwich and Delray but people would rather fight over putting in a new DRIC bridge in an area where there may be salt mines and brine wells. Even DRIC is not so confident about what it is that they're going to recommend since they have created a peer review panel to overlook the work that they're doing. Why are we taking an unnecessary risk worth billions of dollars if a mistake is made?]
Beckmann: Her husband, also, his company I understand has become a consultant to the City of Windsor for leadership projects so I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. [Again I don't understand it. Why would the Governor's husband work for a proponent in a matter in which his wife has to make a decision? Why would Eddie retain him in the first place knowing that this could cause an embarrassment on both sides of the river? Oh well, maybe the conflicts rules are different on the other side of the river]
Stamper: Well you know, I don't either, but there are so many things involved in this and so many sub-consultants involved that we need to take a deep breath and look at what's good for Michigan and there is no doubt and it has been confirmed that our project is the best project for Michigan but for this claim that Canada will not allow it to happen. And Canada is processing our environmental assessment just like Federal Highway or Coast Guard is in the US and I just think it is disingenuous for the Governor and the Director of MDOT to blame Canada for them not doing what's right for Michigan. [I wonder who the sub-consultants are that Stamper was talking about.
The issue about Canada needs to be clarified right away and any misunderstandings eliminated. DRIC has said that the Ambassador Bridge crossing was the best location on the US side. But for the false story with respect to the size of the Customs Plaza, the Ambassador Bridge would have been chosen I am sure as the best crossing on our side. Given that, I do not understand why we need to continue spending money to investigate another crossing that makes no sense.]
Beckmann: Well we will know in the next couple of days whether they plan to go ahead in competition with you if they approve the spending to continue the study right?
Stamper: Well we hope this is not just an anti-competitive action on behalf of the State of Michigan, but I think it will all play out shortly. [It will play out and it seems within the next 30 days when hearings by law have to be scheduled in Michigan.]
Beckmann: How soon could you actually get the project started Dan with approval on this side? How far would you have to go with approval in Canada?
Stamper: Well we have completed the draft EA's both in the Canada and the US. The US one is now being finalized and by the end of the year the final EA will be in the Coast Guard's hands. We hope by January the final EA for Canada, unless they try drag their feet a little bit, and some of these environmental assessments take a little longer that we would hope. But we like to put a shovel in the ground next year and create about 3,700 jobs for Michigan and for Ontario. [Stamper has clearly challenged the Governments on both sides of the river to get the EA process completed ASAP so that jobs can be created. If the road to the border can be finalized as well, then we are looking at another 10,000 or so jobs that would be created in Windsor alone.]
Beckmann: And how long would it take to conclude the project? How much would it cost?
Stamper: We have already spent, which is really the disappointing part in this, we have already spent about $500 million in the property acquisitions and demolition engineering and EA process and we have done that in good faith to replace our bridge and we have done it based on the Gateway project which is currently going on at the Ambassador Bridge and that is about $220 million worth of work which is under construction now, and based on agreements with Canada and commitments from Canada to fix its road. So we have already spent about a half billion dollars of our money to get to this point and it is about another $420 million to build the bridge. [Here's an important point in all this. The Bridge Company has already spent about $1 billion with the full knowledge of Governments on both sides of the river. I just don't see how Governments can walk away from this by changing the rules almost towards the end of the game and say we are going to build a bridge a mile away from you, to compete with you and, in the circumstances, will have to subsidize a private enterprise competitor. Litigation in this matter would be horrific.]
Beckmann: So the total is a little over a billion dollars?
Stamper: It should not be this hard to spend a billion private dollars in the State of Michigan with the problems that are going on in the State of Michigan today. [Reread Stamper's statement a couple times. It truly is not believable but we are seeing it happen in Windsor/Detroit!]
Beckmann: Amen to that. Keep us informed. We will watch what happens in Lansing and if there is more funding approved for the bridge, then for the study of the bridge, we know you will have enough of a delay coming my friend.
Stamper: Well I hope that people will see the light and want these jobs in Michigan and Ontario and start supporting us and if anybody wants information on the project, go to our website www.ambassadorbridge.com and you can leave comments support or opposition to our project but we got to say that ninety percent of all the information we are gathering is supporting our project because of the jobs.
Beckmann: Dan, I appreciate the time.
Beckmann: Well if Canada is fine with it as you say that should end the discussion right there? Lets move ahead with private investment in this
Stamper: Absolutely and we all felt that there is more to this than we know and the State of Michigan has continually blamed Canada for not doing the right thing for Michigan and I just think that it is way past time to do what is right for Michigan and I don't think Canada, and I am pretty sure they will confirm that, are not against what we are trying to do. [Again a hint of reconciliation. The intriguing part which may or may never be revealed what is it that is "more to this than we know."]
Beckmann: Do you think that MDOT wants to replace you as the Ambassador bridge link or join you in that enterprise and compete with you?
Stamper: Well, as you are aware and everyone is aware, MDOT owns and operates the Blue Water Bridge and they tried to take most of our business a few years ago when they twinned the Blue Water Bridge. They built freeway connections to it and now they are talking about spending another $450 million to fix the plaza that was done wrong by MDOT . That they are a direct competitor and I do believe that plays a role on what’s been going on. [It is interesting to me about the relationship with MDOT and the Bridge Company as both regulators and competitors. It is very similar to the relationship with the Government of Canada and with the City of Windsor in relation to the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel. The question that may well have to be decided one day if there cannot be resolution is how much of what the Governments have done is regulation and how much is anticompetitive behavior]
Beckmann: Well as you said, $450 million to fix a plaza that wasn't done right in the first place which once again points out that private enterprise is always going to do a better job on these projects than government is, isn't it?
Stamper: Well it's proven that way. We’ve got an 80-year history at the Ambassador Bridge. We are the number one border crossing both in volume of commercial traffic and in efficiency. It has been noted by Federal Highway in a number of their reports that we are always consistently better operated than any of the government-owned bridges. Our projects also needs no homes, no businesses and the DRIC bridge would take somewhere between 150 and 300 homes that have to be condemned and about 60 businesses that would have to be condemned. So it raises in the question, where is this all coming from and we all know the Governor is Canadian but we sure didn't think it would fall into this kind of decision making. [I do not follow the Blue Water Bridge matter that closely but it is surprising to me that the issue of spending over $400 million to fix up the MDOT mess hasn't been discussed more often. Imagine giving the people who made the mess in the first place so much more money to fix it. And these are the people that we are relying upon to fix up Windsor/Detroit. Now that makes me scared.
The part that has always boggled my mind on both sides of the river is why no one will accept the Enhancement Project that causes no disruption in Sandwich and Delray but people would rather fight over putting in a new DRIC bridge in an area where there may be salt mines and brine wells. Even DRIC is not so confident about what it is that they're going to recommend since they have created a peer review panel to overlook the work that they're doing. Why are we taking an unnecessary risk worth billions of dollars if a mistake is made?]
Beckmann: Her husband, also, his company I understand has become a consultant to the City of Windsor for leadership projects so I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. [Again I don't understand it. Why would the Governor's husband work for a proponent in a matter in which his wife has to make a decision? Why would Eddie retain him in the first place knowing that this could cause an embarrassment on both sides of the river? Oh well, maybe the conflicts rules are different on the other side of the river]
Stamper: Well you know, I don't either, but there are so many things involved in this and so many sub-consultants involved that we need to take a deep breath and look at what's good for Michigan and there is no doubt and it has been confirmed that our project is the best project for Michigan but for this claim that Canada will not allow it to happen. And Canada is processing our environmental assessment just like Federal Highway or Coast Guard is in the US and I just think it is disingenuous for the Governor and the Director of MDOT to blame Canada for them not doing what's right for Michigan. [I wonder who the sub-consultants are that Stamper was talking about.
The issue about Canada needs to be clarified right away and any misunderstandings eliminated. DRIC has said that the Ambassador Bridge crossing was the best location on the US side. But for the false story with respect to the size of the Customs Plaza, the Ambassador Bridge would have been chosen I am sure as the best crossing on our side. Given that, I do not understand why we need to continue spending money to investigate another crossing that makes no sense.]
Beckmann: Well we will know in the next couple of days whether they plan to go ahead in competition with you if they approve the spending to continue the study right?
Stamper: Well we hope this is not just an anti-competitive action on behalf of the State of Michigan, but I think it will all play out shortly. [It will play out and it seems within the next 30 days when hearings by law have to be scheduled in Michigan.]
Beckmann: How soon could you actually get the project started Dan with approval on this side? How far would you have to go with approval in Canada?
Stamper: Well we have completed the draft EA's both in the Canada and the US. The US one is now being finalized and by the end of the year the final EA will be in the Coast Guard's hands. We hope by January the final EA for Canada, unless they try drag their feet a little bit, and some of these environmental assessments take a little longer that we would hope. But we like to put a shovel in the ground next year and create about 3,700 jobs for Michigan and for Ontario. [Stamper has clearly challenged the Governments on both sides of the river to get the EA process completed ASAP so that jobs can be created. If the road to the border can be finalized as well, then we are looking at another 10,000 or so jobs that would be created in Windsor alone.]
Beckmann: And how long would it take to conclude the project? How much would it cost?
Stamper: We have already spent, which is really the disappointing part in this, we have already spent about $500 million in the property acquisitions and demolition engineering and EA process and we have done that in good faith to replace our bridge and we have done it based on the Gateway project which is currently going on at the Ambassador Bridge and that is about $220 million worth of work which is under construction now, and based on agreements with Canada and commitments from Canada to fix its road. So we have already spent about a half billion dollars of our money to get to this point and it is about another $420 million to build the bridge. [Here's an important point in all this. The Bridge Company has already spent about $1 billion with the full knowledge of Governments on both sides of the river. I just don't see how Governments can walk away from this by changing the rules almost towards the end of the game and say we are going to build a bridge a mile away from you, to compete with you and, in the circumstances, will have to subsidize a private enterprise competitor. Litigation in this matter would be horrific.]
Beckmann: So the total is a little over a billion dollars?
Stamper: It should not be this hard to spend a billion private dollars in the State of Michigan with the problems that are going on in the State of Michigan today. [Reread Stamper's statement a couple times. It truly is not believable but we are seeing it happen in Windsor/Detroit!]
Beckmann: Amen to that. Keep us informed. We will watch what happens in Lansing and if there is more funding approved for the bridge, then for the study of the bridge, we know you will have enough of a delay coming my friend.
Stamper: Well I hope that people will see the light and want these jobs in Michigan and Ontario and start supporting us and if anybody wants information on the project, go to our website www.ambassadorbridge.com and you can leave comments support or opposition to our project but we got to say that ninety percent of all the information we are gathering is supporting our project because of the jobs.
Beckmann: Dan, I appreciate the time.
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